Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The world of healing can be treacherous, but suddenly spiritual aims to provide real, honest, practical, spiritual knowledge and wisdom for the true seekers among us.
The goal is to ignite the divine human within each listener, raising the collective consciousness for our planet. We will challenge your preconceptions, push your buttons and encourage deep reflection. We're not here to adhere to the status quo of what the new age spiritual market wants you to buy into and believe. Consider this your antidote to the woo woo and a place of woo you.
It's more about self awareness. I know we keep coming back to this, but for me it truly is sort of the, the first step, I think, to all of this, because once you realize and you're aware that, oh, why do I keep apologizing? Why do I keep demeaning myself or pulling myself down? Because I've been trained to do that, whoever the person is, where they've been trained not to be powerful.
And I know for me it's been really interesting as you're talking about being emotional and as a man, tough guy man, you know, we're told, you know, buck it up, move on, get, get it done. And slowly, over time, I've realized in a weird kind of way, and, you know, I'm used to being in front of people and performing and all this sort of thing.
And when I do that, I'm putting out that strong front is what people like and it protects me. But over time, I found, you know, I've been going to events and doing different things. And when I lead with vulnerability, when I lead with a mea culpa where I'm not apologizing for a mistake, or when I am being emotionally vulnerable and saying, hey, I used to be like this. I'm not perfect now, but I realize I'm starting to get better when I leave with that emotionality, with that vulnerability, as a man who's not supposed to be emotional, I find the connection invaluable. I find it more powerful. People resonate with things more. They actually listen, they participate. And I know for me and everyone else, it comes down to something that I had to completely get rid of being very competitive and wanting to always win and succeed.
I always had to know where I was.
And once I got rid of the destination, then I still had to know where I was.
And then inevitably, what do I do? What does everyone do? You're going to start comparing yourself. So who are you going to compare yourself to? Well, maybe it'll be family or friends to make you feel better. And you go, oh, well, they're there. I'm here. I'm better. I'm further ahead.
Or if you're joining an organization or you see somebody rationalize and you go, well, yeah, well, they're there. I know I'm here. Pat myself on the back.
And that made me feel good for quite a while. But then at some point, I just sit there and I'm like, okay, well, I'm completely alone. I'm so awesome. I'm so far ahead of everybody. I'm just here. And then who am I going to converse with? Who's at my level, quote, unquote, because I'm so amazing. I'm so far ahead.
I'm done, actually, because, like, nobody's around. I won.
But then I realized it's that old analogy. I'm totally messing it up. But I know it's rooted in Buddhism, but basically, like, if you compare, if you want to compare an orange to a rock, sometimes a rock may sometimes be sort of roundish, but again, it's a bad analogy. But the thing is, like, you can't compare an orange to a rock, so how can I compare myself to somebody else, okay? We're both human beings. We both have spirits. We may or may not have things in common, but how can I compare me, who's an orange, to a rock and want to be a better rock? It's impossible. You're going to suffer for your entire life.
So for those listening out there, what can they do to stop this need for comparison?
Like comparing themselves to others as they go on the journey as a measuring.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Stick, what you were just talking about was really showing up as a human, Sean.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: So how can I. How do I stop comparing myself to other people while I'm thinking, okay, I'm more spiritual now?
How do I know where I am as far as measuring? Because that's sort of the thing where I. When I. When I start. When people. When you start comparing you, it's sort of a measuring stick to go, where am I? And, you know, they always say, comparison to thief of joy.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Joy. I love that quote. Yeah, it's my favorite quote.
Comparison is the thief of joy because you're never, you have zero clue as to what someone's spiritual interior world is. You don't know. You have no idea.
How can you measure that? You're trying to measure something that's immeasurable.
You know, you can measure brainwave activity and you can measure heartbeat, and you can measure all kinds of, like, human bodily functions with someone or compare people. But even that's not a fair comparison. They're totally unique events. Every human being is a completely unique event. So to try to compare spirit where you are on the path, the only way to do that is from whatever is externalized, whatever people present to you as the signature artifact of their spirituality. What if you're not good at marketing your own spirituality? You know, what if you're not good at communicating your spirituality, but you're a deeply spiritual person? So does that make you less then of someone who's really good and outgoing and is able to capture what their internal world is like?
Whenever I'm in a retreat space and there's a sharing circle, one of my very wise co facilitators always says, don't think about what you're going to say while another person is talking.
Just sit in the moment and listen to what the person is saying and sharing about their experience. And then when it gets to you to talk, just drop into your heart and speak from there. Don't try to calculate and put together something you think will sound cool or funny. Again, it's the comparison. We want to sound smarter than the other person. We want to sound more enlightened than the other person. But that is a trap. It is a trap to believe that you can compare someone's spiritual inner world with yours and be ahead of them or be better than them.
People can be teachers. There's many teachers out there who, again, that is their path in life. That is what they've decided is going to be their life's work, is to be a speaker or a teacher and be public facing, and that's their path. You can't compare paths. Either is the person who is the monk who's meditating 20 hours out of 24 hours a day on a mountain less spiritual than a famous spiritual teacher that's out there than Deepak Chopra. You know, how do you compare those people?
So I think when it comes to spirituality, comparison shouldn't even exist. It doesn't make any sense. It's not logical to do that.
[00:08:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that that's definitely a symptom of the society we live in as far as capitalism goes. Because comparison is the basis of their profit.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: Because if you didn't compare yourself to other people, you wouldn't buy stuff.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: You wouldn't have problems that needed solutions and pills for.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Maybe you would buy, but you'd buy what you need. Or arguably, you would barter.
But if somebody looked a certain way, you wouldn't say, hey, I need to look like that because we've been told that looking like that is what you should do. So that when you look in the mirror, you're a rock, they're an orange. Oh, my God, I have to become an orange. But you, how can you?
[00:09:39] Speaker B: You're a rock or you're an apple or a banana. Like, you're a fruit. You just happen to be a pineapple and the other person happens to be a papaya.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Right. We'll have to work on our analogies, I think. But I'm sure the listeners get the idea. I don't even know if that orange rock thing is actually good. I'll have to think about another one for next time or moving forward.
But I know for me, and I've actually been going through recently, too, because I've been starting to do yoga every morning, and I was really great for, you know, two and a half weeks. And then I woke up one day and like, oh, I got all this stuff to do. Yeah, I gotta start on my work right now. But then I realized, yeah, when I don't feel like doing it is the time I need to do it, to have that discipline, because I'm pushing through and reforming things. And we can talk about engrams and habits and all that stuff, but I realize when, when I'm like, oh, I don't feel like doing yoga this morning.
Yeah, because you've gotten to a point where habitually, okay, I'm not seeing any results, so why should I keep doing, because I've been in that mentality of, well, yeah, after I, after I do yoga one morning, I should see a result next morning. I should be perfectly fit the next morning and perfectly flexible.
Should I, though? So what I'm realizing, and we've been talking about the process again, it takes time for the muscles to lengthen. It takes time for the chakras to start spinning at the right speed. It takes time to calm the mind and get rid of the chatter. It doesn't happen overnight.
And then I know when I wake up in the morning and I go, I don't feel like doing yoga. I know, okay, this is when I have to do it, because this is a turning point right here where I need to break through, and then the body's gonna go, oh, yeah, he's actually serious about this, whether it's been 21 days, which is sort of whatever everybody says, that's the number.
But there have been times previously where I've said, oh, I'm not seeing enough results, and now I don't feel, because then you get confused. You're like, okay, you should listen to your body.
Oh, the body doesn't feel like doing it.
Yeah, but how has that been working out for the past few years? Not feeling like doing it.
And then if you're more self aware, you're going to realize, well, that's actually a voice, it's not a feeling, it's not an instant download, it's not that.
And I've gone through many trials and errors, false starts, and what can you say to those people listening that do kind of have those, I like to call them mini failures.
And the reason I like to call them that is because for me, I would realize, you know what? This thing isn't working. But maybe I'm not supposed to be doing this thing this way. Maybe I need a different version of this.
And for me, I started getting excited back to sort of being a kid and discovering, oh, that didn't work. Let me try this. Oh, that didn't work. Let me try this. As opposed to beating myself up all the time and going, I didn't do it right.
What does that even mean?
So maybe some help for people out there who think they've reached a dead end or, you know, they have time well spent, but they're. They're getting stuck.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Somebody use your yoga example.
When we come up with mental resistance to something, it's information, and it always leads back to what is the resistance about? What is my body and my spirit trying to keep me safe from? Is there fear?
Is there fear that if I am to do yoga every single day and I start to feel better and I start to look better, then what's going to happen? Are people in my life going to be jealous of me? Are they going to say that they think that I'm better than they are? Are people going to not find me as relatable because I'm a now I'm a yogini, and so I'm in a separate class of individuals. What does that story of resistance, how does it serve you?
Even being stuck is also a story. How is my stuck in a, serving me in this moment? Like, what are the benefits? What rewards am I reaping from having the story of stuckness within my life?
What is the behavior I'm doing that I'm engaging in that I know I shouldn't?
I do it anyway, and I know it's not good for me? How is that behavior serving me? What do I get out of it? And once you find out the real reason why you do things, the real reason, the real story behind the resistance, many times you'll find that these stories of resistance are stories of stuckness have very little to do with you. They have a lot to do with other people.
They have to do about how you'll be perceived by other people if you'll be judged or criticized.
And so it's very external.
So it's coming back into the self awareness part that we keep talking about is, do I care? Do I really care? And if I care, why do I care so much?
I feel like a lot of the people that we deem as very spiritual or people who we look up to, they do their own thing, and they kind of don't care about what other people think. To a certain extent, they're going to teach what they're going to teach. They're going to say the words they're going to say. And if people resonate with them, great. And if they don't, they don't really spend a lot of time thinking about it, because they know they're not for everyone. And you're not for everyone either. I'm not for everyone. Shawn's not for everyone. It's just what. That's what it is to really be a human being. It's you're being yourself. You're always coming back to your own self. That's where you're really going. Being as much of yourself as you can in every moment, whether it's being vulnerable or showing anger or emotion, whatever it is, it's more about being yourself.
That's the most radical thing that you can do, is to be yourself. And so I would encourage people to look at the stories that are attached to their feelings of stuckness, their feelings of resistance, and see where they come from and who they're about and work to release them. Find other better stories. Aren't you bored of that story?
You've held onto it for how long? Aren't you just bored? Are you over it? Okay, if you're over it, find a better story.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: And I know for me, the story is an interesting thing, because I've seen other people on their own journey, and they detach the story from actually doing anything because they'll create the story, convince themselves of it, and then not even a body dysmorphia just came up with this. A life dysmorphia.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: It's true.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: Right? Where? And for those who don't know, life body dysmorphia is you look in the mirror and you see something that's not there. You convince yourself you're not beautiful or you're fat. When you're not, or the other way, but this life dysmorphia where you convince yourself I'm this, this and this, but then you actually, it's like you skip to the end and you think you're done so you don't have to do any work, but you actually haven't done anything because you convinced yourself you're done. I have no more healing to do. I'm spiritual, and I've even seen the most spiritual people, and this has happened to me, too, where I'm in a good place, I'm good, and then I'm talking to somebody, and then all of a sudden something just pops out. I'm like, where did that come from? I'm so self aware, I'm so spiritual, I thought I was done. And obviously this is kind of the theme here. You're never done. What about people who are listening to this going, yeah, I love listening to this podcast and I read books and everything, but I'm good. I don't have. I have no healing to do.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Congratulations for being the only human on the planet who has no healing to do. I would love to shake your hand and hear your story of not needing any healing whatsoever.
Every single person on this planet, if you are a living human being and you can hear my voice, you definitely have healing to do.
Just living on this planet, just being a human, this planet is giving us not only this planet, it's really humanity.
Humanity gives us so many opportunities to heal, and I can't think of a single individual, you know, that they call people who have reached a very high, a pinnacle, basically, of enlightenment, they call them ascendant masters. And so these ascendant masters, people will say, Buddha is an ascendant master, Jesus Christ is an ascendant master. Saints are ascendant masters. Yeah, they're, they're all not incarnate as human beings. So my answer is, if you were an ascendant master and you had no healing to do and you've reached the pinnacle of spirituality as a human being, you wouldn't be on earth, you wouldn't be a human anymore. You would have moved along because you would have not stayed here, and you could tell yourself that you have no healing to do. That's great. That's an interesting story to have. How is it working out for you?
What does your life look like? I would love to again, I would love to meet this person and shake their hand. I would love to know what this person's life is like.
I feel, and I get the sense that when people are like, I am just totally healed. I have nothing to work on. I am exactly as I am and I'm perfect in every way.
There's a deep sense of denial and fear and I feel really sorry for those people.
I'm sure they exist because they're really scared of looking inside and investigating more. They're living this very surface type of life.
I call it flatlining. You're just existing, plugging along and existing and not doing any kind of deeper investigation of your life and your life circumstances and your relationships. A lot of times they'll say, oh, yeah, I decided that I was not going to have any kind of significant relationships. I'm going to go live in the woods by myself in a cabin. Like, again, it's like the isolation.
What is the isolation about? Why do you feel you need to isolate yourself? Oh, I just don't like people.
Oh, interesting.
So there's something there. So there's always, there's always healing to do. Everyone, even people that we put on, again, on a pedestal as enlightened teachers and very spiritual, they do their own healing work as well. I would hope that they would. And I think they do.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: It's funny, mentioned that, about not liking people. I used to say that as a joke.
I would say, yeah, I hate people.
And then I would cart myself out. I go do a keynote address or I go speak or I do something, and I'd be on stage and there'd be thousands of people in front of me. I do my thing and I'd leave. I'm like, hey, I don't, I don't like people. Or I would say, well, you know, I'm an, I'm an introverted, I'm an extrovert introvert. I'd flip the order around, but I'd say, okay, well, you know, when I go out, my energy is absorbed by everyone. I push the energy out, I do my thing, but then I gotta go and recharge. So that was the excuse. I hate people, okay? Now I don't hate them, I gotta be around them. But then, yeah, I gotta go recharge.
And now I'm realizing, and I think I mentioned this previously, I was actually having this discussion with a friend yesterday that I can only get so far in isolation as far as being self aware and knowing who I am, because I need, not me to enforce me, so I need to go out and interact with other people. And when they interact with me, when things happen, how I react is how I reinforce me, and how I react is how I realize, oh, this is the real me, or how I don't act or how I let things go, or.
And I was talking to this friend, and she was wanting to make changes in her life because she wants to be better for her partner, for her kids, and it's always about somebody else with her. And I've known her a very long time.
And I just looked at her, I go, well, what about you?
And she kind of just looked at me, what do you mean? I'm doing this for me.
I go, but just now you just said you want to be better for, which is admirable. I want to be better for my kids. I want to be better for my partner. Yeah, but you've been saying that to me for five years. How's that working out for you?
You'll get all this intention, put all this energy in, put all this work in, and inevitably something will happen because.
And I looked at her, I said, well, what about you? It's okay to be selfish for people who are hearing this and going, well, yeah, I put in the time for healing for my spouse, for my kids.
Why is this inevitably a recipe for disaster?
[00:24:41] Speaker B: If you outsource your spirituality and healing to other people and have it hinged and based on what other people's needs and wants are, it's a moving target. You're setting yourself up to fail because you're relying on other people to inform you about your own internal condition.
And human beings are relational.
We interact with each other, and we learn about ourselves within interaction, within relationship. We.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: Oh, that's what I figured out. Oh, okay.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: That's what you figured out, John, that we're relational beings and we can't be in isolation. And there was. I think I mentioned this on another episode where there was a. An experiment done where children were not given physical touch other than to be changed, like infants, small children. And this was quite a long time ago, so it wasn't a recent study.
They were fed, but no eye contact was really given to them. No calming or soothing touch was given to them.
And many of those children became very ill. And it's called failure to thrive. When human beings are not in close proximity, within a warm relationship where they're touched, but also eye contact being met, being seen. We are very relational beings. That's how we survive. That's why we started off in small tribal bands. And it was very important to fit into your tribe because you relied upon them for survival.
So thousands of years of evolution cannot simply be erased with a couple of retreats that you need to be in relationship with people. But when you solely look at others external for validation and for information about yourself, then you never really get to know who you are. And it tends to bring upon emptiness and loneliness because it's like, who are you? You have to ask other people who you are. You have no concept of it on your own and it can cause a lot of pain for people, but they really want the acceptance and they feed off of the acceptance. What happens if someone is tired or someone is distracted and you don't get that level of validation from them in a moment where you really need it? Then what happens?
You're constantly going to outside for that validation and you're going to be left again empty.
So trying to improve yourself or becoming more spiritual or more healed for other people alone, just them is a recipe for you becoming very depressed and anxious because you're going to be constantly wondering, am I good enough for this person? Am I healed enough for this person? Am I giving this person what they want or need? What about me? What about what I want when I need? And it can create a cycle of being a martyr too, which is it's a whole thing unto itself.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: So be the best orange you can be. What? I probably forget about the rocks.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: Yes, forget about the rocks. Unless they're like crystals and they're pretty and shiny, it's a totally different story.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: Until next time, folks. Thanks for listening.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Thanks for listening.
